Friday, May 01, 2009

Obamacare to Destroy Private Healthcare

Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), at an April 18, 2009 healthcare reform rally in Chicago said the strategic objective of Obamacare is to destroy the private health insurance business.

“I know many of you here today are single payer advocates and so am I … and those of us who are pushing for a public health insurance don’t disagree with this goal. This is not a principled fight. This is a fight about strategy for getting there and I believe we will," said Rep. Jan Schakowsky. -
Right now, Mexicans and Canadians come to US private health care facilities for treatment not provided at home or because the wait for their national socialized care takes longer than they have before permanent disability or death. So, after US health care becomes single payer (the government) and then single provider (the government), where will Mexicans and Canadians get their health care?

The life of Indigo Red is full of adventure. Tune in next time for the Further Adventures of Indigo Red.


Louise said...

Just a slight correction. In the Canadian system, the government is not they employer of the health care provider. The government pays the bills, rather than the individual who receives the service. Not that it makes things any better. Doctors abuse the system left and right.

Louise said...

Oh, and there is no competition with respect to price, either. Fees are negotiated with the various provincial medical associations. Roughly 40% of most provincial governments' budgets go to paying health care providers. One of the biggest problems, if you ask me.

Indigo Red said...

A difference without distinction. Any government interference in healthcare or any private industry is an unjustified intrusion and an unwarranted evil.

dcat said...

Don’t get sick and if you need an expensive procedure to save your life forget it!

It’s murder!

Indigo Rose said...

When I was in Victoria, British Columbia years ago, I was told by a local...."Do Not Allow your government to take over health care. It doesn't work. We all head to the U.S. to get necessary operations because the waiting time can kill you."
I doubt that things have gotten much better.

Democracy Lover said...

Since the private insurance companies are primarily responsible for the failure of U.S. health care and add absolutely nothing whatever of value to the health care of Americans, it would be prudent and smart of Obama and the Democrats to cut them out of the picture altogether. Eliminating private insurers as a necessary component of U.S. health care delivery is the only way we can achieve universal care at lower cost.

Unfortunately Obama is opposed to single-payer health care and is pushing for a plan that will somehow include private insurers thereby insuring that his plan will fail if it is enacted.

Private health care is not at risk, even if Obama were to wake up and support single-payer. The health care will continue to be delivered by private physicians and clinics and hospitals organized as private for-profit or non-profit entities. Single-payer health care will increase choice by eliminating "in-network" closed panels so that patients can choose any doctor they want.

suek said...

What failure of the US health care system?

How has it failed?

Indigo Red said...

Suek, DL is confussing two ideas:(1) Health CARE, and (2) Health INSURANCE.

Our health care system remains the system that people in countries with Socialized Healthcare come to because it's fast, easy, and affordable. There is no shortage of healthcare in the US, anyone can get healthcare with or without insurance. Free clinics abound, private charity hospitals are still in operation (in fact, here in OC County, CA, the Catholic charity hospital is the only hospital making a profit), and there is always the emergency room.

There is an exagerated number of people without health insurance. Young workers often forego insurance because they tend to be healtier and use healthcare less often and it may be cheaper for them to pay out of pocket and they would rather have the money for playtime or paying school debts; people between jobs temporarily without insurance are counted for the entire year no matter how short the unemployment; many wealthy people are counted as uninsured even if they have boutique accounts at private healthcare centers.

The only failure in American healthcare and health insurance is the Democrats failure to criminalize the private healthcare and insurance industries and federalize the whole system for the benefit of Socialist politicians.

suek said...

This article was interesting for those who think health care is a "failure" in the US.

>>Young workers often forego insurance because they tend to be healtier and use healthcare less often and it may be cheaper for them to pay out of pocket and they would rather have the money for playtime or paying school debts;>

Young people think they're immortal. Eventually they get older and wiser, and learn that the facts of life are about more than just sex!

TCS had an article a very long time ago about the fact that what we call health "insurance" is really deferred care. I'm sorry that I've lost the link, and a search on their site (which I don't read any more because they've changed their format to one I find annoying. I probably should check it again, since _maybe_ they've changed again to something I'd feel comfortable with - it was a very good site) doesn't turn it up, but basically, the author's position was that eventually everybody will need some form of health care, and it should be planned that way instead of treating it as if the expensive health requirement is an "accidental" occurrence. The article was very reasonable and persuasive.

Why shouldn't we all expect to pay our routine medical expenses, but be able to buy insurance for extraordinary expenses?

Democracy Lover said...

Red, you are right that our Health CARE system is pretty good - for those who can afford it. Free clinics and hospital ER's are not part of anyone's good health care system. They are better than letting the people suffer and die, but let's not call it decent health care.

Health INSURANCE is a totally worthless and very expensive frill. The insurance industry provides no service of any kind to anyone. Private insurance companies do not add value to the system, only cost.

The failure in American health care is the Republicans and conservative Democrat's failure to take on the insurance and pharmaceutical industries and give the American people the health care system they deserve.

Indigo Red said...

I'm sorry, DL that you are a Dumb Liberal. If you weren't you would know the value of health insurance and its manifold benefits to Americans.

You just happened to choose the wrong target this time. I was born with Arthrogryposis Multiplex Congenita and underwent many corrective orthopaedic surgeries between two months and 13 years of age. All, ALL of the surgeries, hospitalizations, physical therapy, drugs, devives, braces, crutches, orthopaedic shoes, hospital meals, ALL was paid for by health insurance, specifically Blue Cross with all premiums paid out the salary my father worked for.

Without the care provided by many fine surgeons, doctors, nurses, hospital staff, insurance reps, clerks, and many other finer people than you I went from a state of total immobility to independent living through elementary, middle, and high school, college and university on two continents, travelled to 20 countries alone, hold a full time job obtained by my own qualifications, pay my bills and taxes. I even feed myself and wipe my own ass.

Had it not been for the PRIVATE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY I would still be flat on my back in a nursing home someplace wishing I were dead. Had I been born in the 21st century, the US government and the health care industry today would have had me killed during gestation or shortly after birth.

Dumb Liberal, you can go diddle yourself now.

Stupid putz...

Indigo Red said...

You may recall, suek, that the whole notion of a government funded heathcare system was for Catastrophic Healthcare situations such as heart transplants which was new and extremely expensive with no likely of survival beyond a few years, and cancer treatments also with low survivability odds.

The whole notion that healthcare insurance, private or public, was to pay for routine doctor visits was thought ridiculous. Then came the 1980s when companies paid roughly the same in salary, so they started offering company health plans as employment inducements. Now workers expect the employer to insure them to the point that workers think it ridiculous to pay for their own care.

This was not envisioned as anything other than medical care that was radically more expensive than routine or normal care. It's gotten way outta hand and it's only going to get more expensive as the public and healthcare providers are forced into a system that requires care at specific costs whether that's the real price or not. And we'll be lucky if there are any physicians left practicing medicine because the paperwork and low reward for the many years of training won't be worth the hassle. It would better to be a plumber.

suek said...

Here's another factor, though it doesn't exactly address this particular issue.

re: your last paragraph. I agree. Additionally, I don't think people realize the implications of making the government responsible for health care from the legislation angle. In GB, they now have government employees who go door to door telling people what to do about food care and leftover use. I kid you not! And there are people who are refused treatment because their conditions are considered to be caused by their own actions. If you smoke, eg, you may develop lung diseases, and are ineligible for expensive treatment. Better to spend the health care on someone who has lung disease through no fault of their own. Overweight? heart disease - no operation for _you_!!

Unacceptable. There just isn't enough money to go around - care will have to be limited somehow.

Indigo Red said...

That's right, suek. It's not healthcare; it's healthcare rationing.

Democracy Lover said...

Red, I'm sorry to hear about your health care issues but had the country adopted universal health care like all the other major industrialized nations back when they did, all that excellent care would have been covered. You were lucky to have a father whose employer had a top-notch health insurance plan, and to have needed that coverage back when those plans were at their best.

Far too many employers can no longer afford to provide that kind of top-quality coverage, even with large "contributions" by their employees. Blue Cross back in the day was non-profit, but no more. They have to squeeze a big profit out of their business to satisfy Wall Street and that runs up costs so they do everything possible to cut back at the expense of patients and providers.

As I said, it is health CARE that we need. Private health insurance doesn't add anything whatever that could not be provided better, faster and cheaper by the government.

suek said...

>>They have to squeeze a big profit out of their business to satisfy Wall Street >>

Wall Street baloney! I don't know the actual numbers but the larger percentage of businesses are considered small business. They may be incorporated, but they're not anything Wall street is interested in. I've heard the number of 70-80% of jobs are by small business owners. I don't know the specifics of that designation, but unless you've owned a small business, you don't know diddly. It has nothing to do with Wall Street - it has to do with the fact that a small business owner has the right to a living wage just as his workers do, and some return on his investment as well.

The government doesn't provide _anything_ better, faster and cheaper than business does.

Indigo Red said...

I did give leave to offer your sympathies, Dumb Liberal. Where do you get off thinking your condolences are needed or wanted? Just another indicator of your personal arrogance and nanny-mindedness that you should think I wanted, needed, or requested your pathetic sympathy. Fuck you.

I did not say my father worked for a company that offered great health care insurance; that's your own misreading. I wrote that my father paid for the insurance out of his own paycheck. Learn to read. Health insurance was the responsibilty of the employee when America was made up of independent thinking individuals, rather than the braindead socialist automatons we have today.

Had America gone the way of the other major industrialized countries had, we would be just as broke as they are. And if it's such a wonderful idea, why is Sarkozy and Putin warning us not to go down the socialism road?

The government, any government, has never provided anything " better, faster and cheaper."

The last time I had a fool liberal so transparently ill-infomed as you so vividly are, Dumb Liberal, I summarily deleted each comment upon receipt. I don't like you. Go away.