Saturday, February 10, 2007

Take the Mudkitty Challenge

In the previous post, Mohammad Descendant Christian Convert, rather than decrying the intolerance afforded to a Prophet kinsman, the death threats delivered in the name of the "Religion of Peace", the refusal of the German government to grant protection especially given the recent intolerant past of NAZI Germany, in very few words, Mudkitty, has managed to create a moral equivalence case between Islam and Christianity. Of course, I disagree.

Here is the original simple and eloguent comment exchange followed by what started as a simple reply that grew into the post you are reading now.

mudkitty said...
From one delusion to another.
2/09/2007 08:29:00 PM


Indigo Red said...
Perhaps. But one of those delusions is a whole lot less fatal than the other.
2/09/2007 10:14:00 PM


mudkitty said...
Not historically.
2/10/2007 08:12:00 AM

Yes, even historically, Mudkitty. There is no edict -none - in the Christian faith that commands killing unbelievers, atheists, non-believers, homosexuals, apostates, adulterers and adulteresses, mockers of the faith, heretics, rape victims, disobedient girls and women, as there is in Islam. That Christians have killed is undeniable, but that was not a function of the faith; it was a function of the people doing the killing who, oh, by the way, were Christians.

The killing today by Islam is far more immediate than historical references to killings done by Christians. You cannot provide even one instant example of Christians, as a whole, killing others just and simply because their beliefs differ from the common dogma. I highly doubt, Mudkitty, you are trying to convince us that, because Christians killed despite the strictures during the past two thousand years, it's now Islam's turn to kill willy-nilly for we all know turn-about is fair play and all's fair in warfare, et cetera. However, if that is your argument, then, at least, have the brass balls to distinctly say so.

Islam says, 'KILL, KILL, KILL!', 'kill the unbelievers wherever you find them and chop at their necks', 'the rocks and trees will say, Oh, Believer, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him', 'women caught in adultery (even being raped) shall be stoned to death', 'homosexuals who are caught shall be put to death by having a brick wall toppled upon them', 'apostates shall be thrown from the highest building.' I'm not making any of this up. It's all there in the Quran and/or the Traditions, and Sharia. And the practices continue unto the present hour.

Christianity says, 'Love your enemy,' 'if you are struck on the right cheek, turn to him also the left,' 'do unto others as would you would have done unto you.' The fact that Christians have killed millions DESPITE the objections of the religious teachings and the Muslims have killed millions and continue to kill BECAUSE of their religious teachings is a very telling and significant point. That people on your side of the debate, Mudkitty, can't distinguish any difference at all is also exceedingly telling about your philosophies and the lack of morals therein.

Nowhere in all of Islam, the religion or tradition, is there any mention of "loving" one's enemy. The references to the violence of Islam, by Islam, and for Islam are numerable and easy to find. Mudkitty, you cannot show us any reference in Islam, Quran, or Hadith that says don't kill your enemy - not one. Killing in the name of their god, Al'lah, Mohammad, and for Shi'ites, Ali is not only acceptable, but required to get into Paradise. Otherwise, one's fate established at one's creation is already determined. Whether a good life or an evil life is lead, the fate of one's soul is predetermined by the god, only by killing a member of a proscribed group can the fate be changed and Paradise found.

Neither can you find anything even closely resembling a command, hint, or suggestion in the Christian New Testament in which the Messiah ever says or hints it is alright, just, and good to kill or cause harm to others even if they are not of the same kinship group or religious philosophy in the name of Adonai or Jesus.

Go ahead, Mudkitty, prove me wrong. And maybe along the way, you'll learn a thing or two.


The life of Indigo Red is full of adventure. Tune in next time for the Further Adventures of Indigo Red.

27 comments:

indigo rose said...

Perhaps the delusions mudkitty speaks of are her own?

Tom C said...

Perhaps my good friend attempts to teach a stump. While somewhat porous, the water of knowledge flows far to fast for any penitration.

Gayle said...

You're right, Indigo Red; there is no comparison between Islam and Christianity. Only a liberal atheist can make that imaginary leap, and it is indeed imaginary. We are told to tolerate those who don't agree with us. How tolerant the Muslims are, don't you agree? LOL! Mudkitty also should understand that if she were a Muslim she would have no rights whatsoever. Christian women are not stoned for disobeying their husbands, painting their fingernails, or showing their faces in public. I would be perfectly willing to tolerate Muslims practicing their religion freely and building their Mosques, as long as they gave me that same tolerance. They do not, and not even Mudkitty can argue with that, because it's a fact!

Thanks for taking the time to make that great comment over on MRB. I appreciate it! :)

dcat said...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Um I think Tom C won!

Oh lord how many sick psychos have you created anyway!?

Are there more out there like the mudkitty that pisses in her own box untill its mud and tromps all over the internet spreading disease!?

dcat said...

I guess it's here right... Carry on and hope that you have freedom when the big take over happens!

I will because I will die first!


Hey Indigo I got new downhill ski's tonight. Rossi's (Rossignols) Click on for the USA and see the video.

dcat said...

Oh Ya all know I'm WICCAN right?

bernie said...

I'm an Atheist Jew and I would prefer living in Christian Europe of 500 years ago than under present day Islam. Why? Simple. Present day Islam is like living in Arabia in 732 AD.

Don said...

Indi you are approaching 20,000 with a rush. It is hard to believe that it all started with re-cycled toilet paper.LOL LOL

mudkitty said...

I want you all to know, that Islam takes it's edicts from the "the book." Meaning the bible. You would know that if you knew anything about the history of the Quran.

Stoning, multiple wives, concubines, prizing virginity, the ownership and subjugation of women, slavery, all advocated the bible.

The advocation of violence: read your bible. You're end times plans for us non-believers are rather violent. That is if your plans adhere to your particular god's plan, anyway.

mudkitty said...

Seeing as how Judaism is a religion, and not a race or nationality, or even an ethnicity, you can't be a Jew and an atheist at the same time.

mudkitty said...

The above was directed at Bernie.

The Flomblog said...

Unfortunaltely Bernie is right. Technically a Jew is someone whose mother was Jewish. That's the law!

Indigo Red said...

Oh, I'm sorry, dear Mudkitty. Bible does not mean 'The Book'. It's merely a reference to the Lebanese city in which the first Bible was bound as a book. The name of the city is Biblos, hence Bible.

I made it very clear, abundantly clear, and Viennese chrystal clear that only the New Testament, the Christian part, was being referenced. In fact, an entire paragraph was devoted to just that topic because you are just so predictable: "Neither can you find anything even closely resembling a command, hint, or suggestion in the Christian New Testament in which the Messiah ever says or hints it is alright, just, and good to kill or cause harm to others even if they are not of the same kinship group or religious philosophy in the name of Adonai or Jesus."

From the OLD TESTAMENT, Mudkitty digs up: "Stoning, multiple wives, concubines, prizing virginity, the ownership and subjugation of women, slavery, all advocated the bible." All rejected in the NEW TESTAMENT by Jesus (except the virginity part) and later by Christians (including the virginity part in our lifetimes.) Jesus was not a Christian, per se, but always counted himself a Jew.

It's interesting that you place concubines along with prizing virginity as evidence of Bible evil. Wouldn't concubinage and virginity be, ipso facto, mutually exclusive, one cancelling the other? I don't know as I'm not an autodidact skilled in either self-deception or delusion.

Ah, slavery. I'm glad you brought that up. It's one of the Liberal canards trotted out frequently. Christianity repudiated slavery many, many years ago. There was even a war fought in the US to end the practice here, perhaps you've heard of it - The Civil War; it was on all the liberal PBS stations. Also, the British outlawed the international trade in human beings in 1824 when they were the Policeman of the World.

It's ironic that with all the autodidacticism and defense of Islam, you don't seem aware that of all the world's peoples and religions, only Islam and Muslims still to this hour advocate and practice slavery. Right down to our very own neighborhoods of Irvine and Los Angeles/Santa Monica. Even Hollwood and Beverly Hills.

"You're end times plans..." I am forced to break this to you, Mudkitty, I am not end time plans. Sorry. Oh, wait, you meant YOUR end time plans. My bad. Well that's different; the end time plans are not mine, either.

If you knew anything about the origins of the Quran you would know al'lah, the god, has it's mythogenesis in Ba'al of Mt. Sinai/Ten Hearty Suggestions/golden calf fame. Hollywood made a movie about it called The Ten Commandments. But,since Charleton Heston starred, you may not have seen it. When Moses (played by Chuck) came dowm from the mountain with the original Top Ten List, saw the people dancing around Ba'al, he commanded they destroy the idol. Well, Edward G. Robinson defiantly said, "Out of my cold, dead hands, see!" Anyway, the God of the Jews and Christians rejected that false god millenia ago. It tended to melt when heat was applied. Much like Islam and Mudkittys. Mudkittys also melt when water is applied much like the wicked...well, you all get the picture.

"Seeing as how Judaism is a religion, and not a race or nationality, or even an ethnicity, you can't be a Jew and an atheist at the same time." Why not? You are a not very entertaining entertainer; why can't Bernie be a Jewish atheist. I'm a Christian atheist. His Jewishness and my Christianess are both functions of our family traditions, societal Zeit Geist, historical perspective, the milleau of each life dictates the label we choose for ourselves. One can most definitly be a Jew and an atheist at the same time. I know for a fact that Bernie can even walk and chew gum at the same time. Many things are possibe. In fact, it's even possible you, Mudkitty, may string together two coherent thoughts. You'll please pardon me if I don't hold my breath.

And what's with all the race stuff again? For a self-proclaimed non-racist you sure do bring it up alot, much as racists do.

A short while back, Mudkitty, I challenged you to an exceedingly simple test of the Constitution. You failed with flailing colors.

This was a somewhat more difficult test requiring the ability to read and comprehend at the same time. The challenge at hand was to offer ONE example from the Christian NEW TESTAMENT in which Adonai(used in place of the unspeakable name of God) or Jesus advocate individual killing or mass slaughter of people who do not subscribe to Christian philosophy. Once again, you have failed.

dcat said...

And I didn't ask to be here and to put up with assholes! Since I am here: Put up with me or else!

dcat said...

be called a racist!

I'm also a jew / Christian.

No more religions for me thanks I'm not driving!

mudkitty said...

Muslims who refer to the book, refer to the bible. Fact. Muslims who refer to "people of the book" are referring to Xians and Jews. Fact.

You can't be an xian and reject the old testament. Jesus said he came to fulfill the "law", meaning Leviticus, not replace it.

You can't be a jew and an atheist at the same time, because judaism is a religion. A religion that perports to believe in a monotheistic god. You can't believe in a god or gods and be an atheist. Fact.

The New Testament doesn't replace the Old testament. That would be heresy. There would be no xianity without the old testament. So all of a sudden, Genesis doesn't apply. That's going to get you far.

mudkitty said...

You can't be a jew and an xian at the same time, because the basic tenant of judaism is monotheism. Xianity is bi-theist, and Catholics are tri-theists (as in the trinity...)

One god...the jews claim to have invented it. Infact, the first monotheists were Egytian.

Indigo Red said...

So saith, Mudkitty; so it is done.


You STILL haven't answered the question at hand. To whit: "...can you find anything even closely resembling a command, hint, or suggestion in the Christian NEW TESTAMENT in which the Messiah ever says or hints it is alright, just, and good to kill or cause harm to others even if they are not of the same kinship group or religious philosophy in the name of Adonai or Jesus."

Try answering the god damned question, fool! Just answer the god damn question!

No subterfuge. No change of subject. No excuses. JUST ANSWER THE GOD DAMNED QUESTION.

Again:

"...find anything even closely resembling a command, hint, or suggestion in the Christian New Testament in which the Messiah ever says or hints it is alright, just, and good to kill or cause harm to others even if they are not of the same kinship group or religious philosophy in the name of Adonai or Jesus."

Indigo Red said...

"the basic tenant of judaism is monotheism. Xianity is bi-theist, and Catholics are tri-theists (as in the trinity...)

One god...the jews claim to have invented it. Infact, the first monotheists were Egytian." mudkitty 2/12/2007 06:53:00 PM

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!

Christianity is BI-THEISTS!
Catholics are TRI-THEISTS!
Jews claim the to have INVENTED MONOTHEISM!
Egytian (sic) were the FIRST MONOTHEISTS!

The mind reels at the ignorance displayed!

Christians believe in the TRINITY!The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit (Ghost) - the TRIUNE God as ONE.

Catholics ARE CHRISTIANS! Anyone professing the Trinity AND the divinity of CHRIST are Christians.

Jews do not and have never claimed to have invented monotheism. The ONE GOD IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. As such, God was not invented or created. The UNCREATED GOD EXISTED BEFORE ALL THAT WE KNOW. When God was asked by Moses what HE replied, "I AM WHO I AM."

The first known and recorded monotheists were the ZOROASTRIANS of Persia. They were the followers of (no, not Zorro) Zoroaster (Zarathustra) and the one uncreated creator of all, Ahura Mazda (God).

The ONLY thing you've gotten right so far, and I'll wager it was pure chance, Jews are monotheists.

AND, it's TENET, not "tenant". Basics don't pay rent. Get a dictionary.

Learn something about mythology and religion and history and everything else before waisting alot of photons. They don't grow on trees.

mudkitty said...

Deep sigh.

The Zoroastrians came after the Egyptian monotheistic cult of Ra. Look it up you great big speller you.

A trinity, is not monotheism.

Non-catholic xians don't like to admit it, but they worship two gods, a father and a son. They have to go through the son to get to the father. Not monotheism.

But you are a good speller, anyway.

Mike's America said...

Indigo: You know the warning about arguing with a fool?

Just wanted to warn you....

Indigo Red said...

Yes, Mike, I know. But sometimes the teacher in me gets the better of me and I hold out the hope of actually teaching a fool something even an old dog could learn.

Never mind that Akhenaten, Amenhotep IV, (1336 BCE or 1334 BCE) didn't create an actual monotheist religion, but only replaced the full pantheon of Egyptian dieties with himself as Ra-Amun-Horus, and his family as the supporting cast of minor gods. The purely political move accomplished breaking the strangle hold of the priests and concentrating power in the hands of Akhenaten. However, he maintained the preists as they proved useful in subdueing the people who tend not to like changing gods often.

The old gods were returned to their places upon the death of Akhenaten. Of course, they had never really been displaced; they went underground and remained as popular as they ever were.

Amun - god of the wind.

Ra - god of the Sun. When with Amun, they become Amun-Ra.

Anubis - god of the dead, and of embalming.

Aten - A form of the Sun god Ra.

Bastet - goddess of cats and perfume.

Bes - Protector of pregnant women, newborn babies, and families.

Geb - god of the Earth, father of Osiris, Isis, Nephthys and Seth.

Hathor - goddess of love.

Horus - god of the sky.

Isis - Protective goddess - used powerful magic spells when people were in need, and was the wife of Osiris.

Nephthys - goddess of the dead and wife of Set.

Ptah - god of craftsmen.

Ra-Horakhty - god of both sky and Sun. A combination of Ra and Horus, thought to be God of the rising sun.

Osiris - god of the dead, and ruler of the underworld.

Sekhmet - goddess of war.

Set - god of chaos.

Thoth - god of writing and scribes.


Hardly reads as monotheism.

Zoroaster lived sometime around 1400 B.C. to 1000 B.C., which represents the current scholarly consensus. Conservative Zoroastrians give a date of 6000 BCE. However, the dates arer not important when asking about monotheism as Zoroastrianism remains the first known monotheism from the beginning of the philosophy (Zoroaster told his followers this was not a religion but a philosophy of life.) It was developed in reaction to Mithras.

Jesus and God are the same guy. The Father IS the Son; The Son IS the Father. When Jesus conquered death on the cross Father/Son became also the Holy Spirit. The three aspects of the On e Uncreated God. Not real hard to understand the mythology here.

And that's the end of the lesson.

The WordSmith from Nantucket said...

All I can say is: I need to bring popcorn next time.

I think some of my favorite posts here have to do with Indigo Red's responses to mudkitty. It's clear which one is consistently outclassed....and yet she still comes back for more....to prove what?!

Indigo Red said...

Sorry to disappoint, Wordsmith. I have terminated Mudkitty's commenting.

devildog6771 said...

oo bad, you could have told her that muhammad took the name "Allah" from the locals ala, the moon good and forced all the people to give up all their other Gods. Islam's history traces all the way back to the illegitimate son of Abraham.

Haven't visited in a while; but, I see that you are still doing agreat job.

That all said, what do you think about the fact that in Detroit, there is an area where the people wake up every morning to that little guy in the tower saying morning prayers?

Indigo Red said...

Well, DevilDog, I think Detroit should install a rocket engine in that minirette and launch that clown into deep space.

Church bells once peeled across the city once a week. The mohammadns filed suit to stop the bells. They have replaced the bells with the tower singer five times EVERY FREAKING DAY!

Jenn of the Jungle said...

Oh... I'm sorry I forgot to give Kitty her shots this month. She's been misbehaving. Result: hairballs of idiocy spewed across righty blogs everywhere.

Just a thought... try not to rationalize with her, she is incapable.

Second thought,dedicating posts to her just gives her validation.

Just my two cents. Not worth much. Nice blog. ;)